EP 4: Neff Irizarry on Latin Jazz, Artistic Growth, and the Power of Transcriptions

Jesse Paliotto (00:00.326)
All right, I'll jump right in here. All right. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Guitar Journal podcast where we love to talk about making music, particularly through the lens of fingerstyle guitar. I'm your host, Jesse Pagliato. I love bringing the best of the music community to you here on the Guitar Journal podcast. Today we have Neff Irizarry with us. I'm super pumped about this. He is a Latin jazz guitarist, composer, educator. Neff's played around the world with a of great players. He's included in the European Real Book, which is a huge honor as a composer.

And he not only teaches, but has created some great materials on Latin jazz guitar. Hopefully we'll get to talk about those in a few minutes. Nef, so pumped to have you here today. Thanks for joining me.

Neff (00:38.7)
You're welcome. It's a pleasure to be with you today on the Guitar Journal and thanks to all the listeners that are out there in the podcast land. They say exactly.

Jesse Paliotto (00:48.742)
Out there in audio land.

Hey, for just to orient people, can you give a quick background on yourself? Just like where you came from a musician, particularly, I'm kind of curious, Latin jazz guitar is a pretty specific thing to make your thing. And how did you get there?

Neff (01:04.503)
No it is.

Well, first of all, I got there. If we reel back, well, I was born and raised in Williamsburg, Virginia, and my heritage first generation Puerto Rican identifies Puerto Ricans. So at home, we had always Latin music. had salsa, Afro-Cuban and Puerto Rican music going on. But not only that,

We had, we were listening to top 40. We're listening to classical music, country, flamenco, everything. My brother played 12 string guitar. and, I have to give this type of background because this kind of sets the stage for what's going on because I didn't, I, you know, I knew about Santana. I love Santana. And actually when I was playing, I wanted to be like, you know, Jimmy Page and Steve Howe. I love that.

Jesse Paliotto (01:53.766)
Right.

Jesse Paliotto (02:00.44)
Right.

Neff (02:01.358)
And I had a garage band at that time in the 90s, 92. And I was playing all that stuff, yes, in Led Zeppelin. And then my neighbor down the way, he gave me two cassette tapes of, one was of Joe Pass and Herb Ellis, Two for the Road and Pass doing the Ellington thing. And then he gave me Off Ramp of Pat Metheny.

Jesse Paliotto (02:08.24)
Yeah.

Neff (02:31.348)
I immediately fell in love with that. but at the same time, there was something about Santana that always had me enthralled. However, you know, knowing that I was, you know, was shedding all this jazz stuff and, I was kind of getting it, but my neighbor wasn't a jazz guy. He was a big blues guy and he told me, Hey, you gotta go to Berkeley. Right. So I did.

Jesse Paliotto (02:58.907)
interesting.

Neff (02:59.711)
So I did a summer program, I did the five week program, and my brother told me, I said, I'm gonna go and learn fusion. Because I figured, okay, that's easier. Because one of the most important things that I feel that I'm so glad that I went to jazz from going from places that I knew really well, right? Because if I would have gone straight there and dropped in, who knows what might have happened.

But I went there because of my love for Steve Howe and then somehow that led to Al Di Maola and Santana and Matheny. So I kind of went upstream in that way. So when I went to the five week program, I told my brother, I remember this very vividly. said, Hey, I'm going to go and, you know, and do fusion. says, fusion does not happen. And you shouldn't do that. You should go straight ahead. You should go to straight to jazz. And I was like, well,

Jesse Paliotto (03:36.966)
Go now.

Jesse Paliotto (03:40.771)
Yeah, right.

Neff (03:56.021)
You know, I'm going to do it this way. And, and, and then he let it go. And what happened was that, of course, everybody knows if you're to learn fusion, you're actually going to learn all of the vernacular, the vocabulary of jazz. So after the, when during the five week program, I had a teacher by the name of Kurt Shoemate, and he was giving me a lot of different things. I fell in love with chords, right? Which goes back to this Joe Pass thing and

Jesse Paliotto (04:21.732)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (04:25.066)
stuff like that. So I came home after the five week program and I said, mom and dad, I want to go to Berkeley. So I spent that year and a half, I was maybe 15, 16 when I was 15, I think 15 and a half when I went to the five week program. And after that I said, okay, I, I, this is what I want to do. And, and, and then I started studying,

Jesse Paliotto (04:46.266)
Yeah.

Neff (04:51.146)
I started studying classical theory and composition because I wanted to get those theory chops. And at the same time, I was just practicing and just trying to figure out things on my own. Of course, at that time, because I grew up in Williamsburg, Virginia, at that time, the public school system had a great music program. And and my high school director, he was actually the founder of the Shenandoah Jazz Department, Alan Wright, Alan Wright.

Jesse Paliotto (04:56.701)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (05:11.528)
nice. Yep.

Neff (05:20.96)
his name W R I G H T. So he was always giving me stuff and he was saying, okay, check this out. You know, Sammy Nesteco, Lenny Niehaus. So I was with the male Bay book, just hacking it away, playing and, meantime, this same teacher of mine, he would lend me these, Don fell was his name. And he's still alive. He would lend me these vintage Gibsons that I would take to school.

Jesse Paliotto (05:33.69)
Right.

Neff (05:45.854)
And I would be playing these. Yeah. I was playing a sixties, three 35 and I was playing that he's my guitar dad, really. So. Well, he knew something. He knew something was up because he eventually, and we'll get to this later, but he eventually sold me my, my 1964 ES 175 at the time. Cause I was going to Berkeley. He knew it and he said, well, this is for you.

Jesse Paliotto (05:46.427)
Really?

Jesse Paliotto (05:54.566)
That's a lot of faith, man. Just handing this kid these nice kids to Gibson's, you're like, all right, have fun. Bring them back in one piece.

Jesse Paliotto (06:10.798)
sweet.

Neff (06:15.389)
So, know, so anyhow, all this time I'm working on my jazz chops. I get into Berkeley, I had some, I had some teachers and they were showing me bebop, I heard you'll beam. And I said, this is very close. I loved it. I remember it was in the second semester. I heard you beam and I was learning that. And, and then I get into,

Jesse Paliotto (06:31.174)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (06:44.457)
I get into the Latin ensemble with Victor Mendoza, the vibraphonist. And then he says, okay, play in clave. And you know, when you're a first generation immigrant in that way, we're all American citizens. However, at home we spoke Spanish and we listened to that music, although, you know, I knew what it is to, I know what it is to be Virginian and all that. But when he asked me play in clave, I didn't know, but I just did it.

And then I realized, my goodness, this is something interesting. There aren't many guitar players doing this. So this happened exactly at the same time that I was, that I was about to find out that I was going to be chosen, but I was going to be in a group of, of guitarists that were going to have a chance to study with Steve Khan. So, so what happened?

Jesse Paliotto (07:14.915)
nice.

Jesse Paliotto (07:40.554)
very cool.

Neff (07:43.325)
was that it was all these coincidences and I'm going very quickly through the background because I'm sure you're to ask me a lot of questions about it. But so what actually happened with me was that out of my love for out of my trying to find myself, my love for straight ahead and also my love for my heritage and my music was

Jesse Paliotto (08:04.08)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (08:11.569)
what eventually thrusted me into that style and developing all of the books and all the material because I realized that first of all, no one's talking about it. The people that are doing it, the great guitar players that doing it, you can find Bobby Broome, you can find Russell Malone, you can find Vernon Reed even on their...

You find Bruce Foreman, I mentioned all these guitar players in the books. They had a natural innate way of playing in this style. However, for most of them, it was just, they were just using their intuition. And what I wanted to do was, I wanted to do this contemporary type of playing that has all of these.

Jesse Paliotto (08:55.108)
Yeah, right.

Neff (09:05.395)
jazz sensibilities that you know I learned from all my great teachers Brett Wilmot John Damien Rick Peckham Larry Bayonne Kurt and Steve I wanted to put that in a modern guitar setting rather than just playing a boleros and playing all the traditional stuff which I know how to do as well but I felt that no one was really doing it and I wanted to honor my elders in that way

Jesse Paliotto (09:22.404)
Yeah. Right.

Neff (09:31.287)
And also have in that vibraphone thing because, you know, I studied with Gary Burton and Dave Samuels as well. So a lot of different things are, are in there. And a matter of fact, I'm still developing this all the time. So it is basically in some ways you could say it's like, you know, the, the American dream in many ways, you know, that,

Jesse Paliotto (09:46.288)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (09:57.065)
You know, my, my folks came over, you know, and, and I grew up in the States and, I, and the multiculturalism and the need to, to integrate the need to acculturate again. And, and then, and then me moving out to Europe, you know, puts a whole complete, you know, spin to things.

Jesse Paliotto (10:22.874)
I want to ask about the Europe thing too, because that's interesting. That's where you've ended up. But it's also interesting, this journey of, I'm going through these levels. I'm starting off at Zeppelin and I'm ending up at Russell Malone or or Jobim. It's also interesting, like so much of it was in you from the beginning because of how you grew up and what you were listening to. So it's almost like you're discovering like, like clave. Like you mean like the thing I've heard for my entire life, like, and other people are maybe not as clued into.

Neff (10:25.067)
Alright, we're gonna get there later.

Neff (10:42.143)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (10:50.091)
And so it's coming like very natural, like the meeting of the streams, so to speak.

Neff (10:54.971)
Exactly and it took these great mentors that were astute because you know and I have to mention something here you know there's a lot of videos on on YouTube about how not to go to Berkeley and how not to do this and not to do that. I don't the question isn't about not going to a place like that the question is is whether you have access to great mentors that can see the potential in you and

Jesse Paliotto (11:10.617)
Okay.

Neff (11:24.073)
tell you, hey, this is something that you should check out. not everyone has that accessibility. can have all of it's like, I remember there was a story that Donnie had told me. said, you know, there are some people in the middle of Virginia that could play, that could play circles around you, but because they don't have the opportunity, we're never going to hear about them. You know? So it

Jesse Paliotto (11:49.37)
Yeah. Is that what people are saying? Don't go to Berkeley because they're saying, you know, you could learn it all on YouTube or something.

Neff (11:54.091)
They say it's a waste of money. Yeah, exactly. And that's not true either, you know, because a lot of, one of the main things about, about what makes me, one of the things about my persona and besides being empathetic and diplomatic is that I like to be extremely focused and, and, and defend the ideas that I have, especially about guitar playing. A lot of people,

will shoot a comment to you about guitar playing or about a certain specific theoretical idea. And first of all, they have no performance experience or they have no theoretical experience. And yes, there are grounds to what they're saying because I like to listen to other opinions and I don't know everything. However, I'm very careful to give an opinion without me actually

really thoroughly investigating it. there's so much information out there that a lot of people that put out a video, they don't necessarily put in the amount of research needed to really back it up. then sometimes, you know, and sometimes they might say something and because you don't know what your audience is, you have to

Jesse Paliotto (13:12.667)
right, definitely.

Neff (13:21.404)
Tone it down the rhetoric and the vocabulary in order for all levels. You know, we have learning levels and learning outcomes. You can't manage all of that, no matter what your pedagogical approaches are. And now I'm going there, you know, to a vast audience. So you might put thumb.

Jesse Paliotto (13:40.826)
Yeah, trying to do like a one size fits all is very hard and especially like in an internet forum where, you know, there's going to be so many different perspectives, 100%.

Neff (13:43.932)
Yeah.

Neff (13:48.802)
Absolutely, absolutely. So, getting back, getting back to.

Jesse Paliotto (13:54.082)
wait wait, talk to me about Steve Kahn for a second. What was that like? Because you kind of slid that in there. Like I was in this select group of guitar players, we were going to study with them. Anyway, then I ended up in Europe. Like what happened with that?

Neff (14:00.006)
Hahaha

Well, that was fantastic because when I was studying with Steve, was during the crossings period, right? That's a great record. And Steve was, you see, Steve always had this Latin, this infatuation with Latin music in his career. If you look in his earlier period with the band, with the fusion,

And then you have a period where he actually relearned, he changed completely his style. So I caught him after this public access and Casa Loco, which I knew those things. And I caught him exactly at the, right after the trio record, let's call this with Al Foster and Ron Carter. And then the crossings record he did. So the main thing that I did was that, and Steve will reconfirm this that

Jesse Paliotto (14:51.482)
Okay, I don't know.

Neff (15:00.838)
I was really interested in what he was doing because I felt that he was, I feel that a lot of people overlook him in the way that in his chordal concept and the way that he plays the lines, the way he develops lines and the way he uses pentatonics and the chordal concepts. He has two great books that were incredible.

Jesse Paliotto (15:03.928)
huh.

Neff (15:26.824)
that we worked out of actually, he didn't have the books at that time. We worked out of, out of a notebook that he had, but anyhow, what I learned with him, I remember in the lesson, said, Hey, you know, I want to apply all this Latin piano things to the guitar. So I remember we were working on that, but also he was showing me what he was doing and how that fit. And I was transcribing that and I was checking out at the same time, Coltrane and McCoy Tyner.

Jesse Paliotto (15:34.608)
Yeah, source control.

Neff (15:56.875)
And a lot of Steve's voicings, the way the fourths are and his concept of playing the chords and scales and things like that, going through the different types of, of modes is extremely interesting in that, in his book, Chord Concepts, he goes through that. So, so that's what I did with, with Steve actually. And that goes back to what I was, the point I was trying to get across with Berklee was that

Jesse Paliotto (15:57.179)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (16:24.198)
We were taught how to be artists and to take from all these different styles, the most important tools to be able to realize our potential. So that meant whether you're going to be a bebopper or you're to be a hard bopper or you're going to be a rock guy, just so that you know what those are and develop that. So that's what I did. And the opportunity with Steve was great because I...

Jesse Paliotto (16:38.372)
Yeah.

Neff (16:53.609)
he actually was interested in that. He actually did that. And he has these amazing books, not only on Wes and not only on Pat Martino, but his own concepts as well. And I was really interested in that too. So it was just the perfect fit in that way that that helped me to inform how that that yeah, to this day, a lot of things that I learned from him and

And a lot of the conversations that I still have with him really have made me into the artist that I am in many ways, you know, and not only in playing, but also in composition and in production and mixing and all these things, you know. So that was, yeah, that was a really good thing. And actually, you know, I would have never, well,

Jesse Paliotto (17:41.818)
Yeah, yeah. interesting.

Neff (17:49.763)
because of Larry Bayonne and the guitar department at the time, I'm really fortunate they had chosen me to go with Steve. And because of that connection, I had met actually Jimmy Haslip before that. And Jimmy was instrumental in my life because we did the two records. We did First into Penthea in 2000.

Jesse Paliotto (18:06.223)
Okay?

Neff (18:16.522)
And we kept in touch and he recognized what I was doing. And he's good friends with Steve Kahn too. They have a working relationship and many years of partnership. So yes, Jimmy Haslip is on Cambio. Yeah, we co-produced it and Jimmy plays bass on there as well as Martin Fabricius on vibraphone and Ricardo Padilla on percussion.

Jesse Paliotto (18:16.72)
Mm-hmm.

Jesse Paliotto (18:29.168)
Mm-hmm.

Jesse Paliotto (18:33.424)
Was he on Cambio?

Neff (18:46.085)
yeah. So as, yeah, as, as you can tell, all these guys somehow are always there in the details. When you listen in, there's lots of different things that are, that are going on in, in all of these, in all of these compositions that, that I'm sneaking in. Cause it reminded me, it reminded me of a story. I remember I was listening to, I don't know what tune it was. And I told Steve, said, Hey, well,

You got that from Claire Fisher, didn't you? And he said, he said, yeah, you heard it. said, yeah, man, I did. So, and, you know, it's really important that I was taught that, you know, you, you, you, you have these, one must have the elders, one must respect the elders. One must understand where the elders came from. And I was always astute to that.

Jesse Paliotto (19:19.685)
Hahaha!

Jesse Paliotto (19:37.734)
Thank you.

Neff (19:43.721)
And I really loved it. remember forever that, yeah, I think it was, I don't know which one, I think We Live Here, this Pat Metheny record. And in the inside, he wrote down the five records that he loved. yeah, and I remember one of those records was the West Montgomery with the, my God, Wynton Kelly trio, Smokin' at the Half Note. And if you listen to that record,

Jesse Paliotto (19:59.288)
cool.

Jesse Paliotto (20:10.397)
OK. Yeah.

Neff (20:12.453)
then you understand exactly what Pat, when Pat talks about time, you understand exactly what's going on. You wanna know who.

Jesse Paliotto (20:21.55)
It's such a big thing for jazz in particular that it's a historical tradition. Like this came from people. It's not an abstract concept that you can just show up like an alien and then make. Like it comes through this very human thing. I would suggest it's also, you know, just art in general is that like there's no just truly a hundred percent original. You're always pulling from source material inspirations in all that.

Neff (20:27.407)
Yeah.

Neff (20:33.444)
Yeah.

Neff (20:42.09)
Exactly. It's derivative works and it's a long, you have to be part of that. Not you don't have to, but you're usually part of that legacy. That it's always from master to disciple, master to disciple, all that, and you're all connected. You're really connected. Matter of fact,

Jesse Paliotto (20:58.884)
Yeah.

Neff (21:05.345)
I was just in October, organized this contemporary jazz workshop that was sponsored by my luthier Theo Sharapach, Master Guitars, and Peter Henrichs on Henrichs and Amps. And our guest was Peter Bernstein. Yeah, and we played together and we did a concert together and we played duo and...

Jesse Paliotto (21:23.334)
nice.

Neff (21:30.949)
I realized so many things because I love Peter and one of my big, big, influences, Jim Hall. And I realized so much that we were connected in so many different ways and Peter's a lovely, just a lovely player, very deep. And like I said, somehow we all are connected. And when you get a chance to be with

Jesse Paliotto (21:47.844)
Yeah. Yeah.

Neff (21:58.785)
our elders and our contemporaries, you realize whether you're from that, whether you're cut from that same cloth. And it's humbling and it teaches you how much you still have to learn, but it also, it's like, it's kind of like, it's vetting and checking, hey, are you there? Did you check this out? Did you catch him? Did you do this?

Jesse Paliotto (22:08.196)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (22:21.616)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Neff (22:26.189)
So I'm very fortunate for that. And like I said, it's definitely always from derivative works. It's not what comes out of the unknown is the reaction to when you hear the other players play something and your subconscious reacts to it in real time. You know, whether you grab that harmony, did you hear that harmony? So many things of all the practice of ear training and composition.

Jesse Paliotto (22:37.636)
Yeah. Right.

Neff (22:56.229)
Did you actually bring that out? And did you use parts of your background of what's going on socially? And did you use those things? Did you actually think about your emotions? you, all these different things that come in that make it more of a holistic approach because it really is. And that originality is that, I think it's

basically that 10 % or I don't want to even give a percent, but it's that magic that each person has that you unlock it through constant searching that we're all going through or, no, go ahead, you're right. No, it's cool.

Jesse Paliotto (23:38.756)
Yeah, so much of a ha or go. Sorry, I cut you off man. I'll just say so much of my own Ahas come through that like of you're listening to something and you go. wait. If you can do that, you could do this. But you need the source material to be like, and it there is that 10 % or whatever that percentage is that is the magic spark of like you're making this leap into the next iteration or into this connection with a different thing.

Neff (23:52.856)
Yeah.

Neff (23:58.969)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (24:05.274)
But like you're leaping from a base into this new idea and you have to be like, you have to be constantly searching, I think, which is the point I interrupted you making there. And that's how you're finding all these base points to like get those aha moments from.

Neff (24:05.284)
Ex-

Neff (24:17.509)
Absolutely. And then you have this reflective period that if you record it, one of the great lessons that I had with Gary Burton was the importance of recording yourself and listening to yourself. And did talk about that and it was great because he told me a story about he had a neighbor that was deaf and she got her hearing back and she couldn't

Jesse Paliotto (24:31.16)
Okay. Can you talk about that? Why?

Neff (24:47.456)
She couldn't, according to Gary, she couldn't believe her voice and she was afraid to talk because her voice was so high. But because she recorded stuff and started listening, she understood where her voice was and then she developed so that she would start to speak to develop a normal voice. So this was in a way in a very...

Jesse Paliotto (25:12.411)
Yeah.

Neff (25:17.013)
very good way to tell me that, hey, you got a lot to work on, but you got to listen and you're going to get there. And it was one of the greatest things that he did for me.

Jesse Paliotto (25:22.79)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (25:33.51)
That is a very gentle, subtle way to bring that point home. You know this example of this lady who really she had a lot to work on? You might try recording yourself too. You're like, okay, I get it.

Neff (25:36.488)
Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, it's really important. It's really important because that is basically our mirror and you always have to because our hearing is developing and it's evolving all the time. And you're informed by what you're transcribing, the music you listen to, but also if you're not listening to yourself and taking that reflective moment to understand what am I playing? Why didn't I?

how come I reacted with something going on in the rhythm section, with something going on with the piano player, the bass player? Was it another outer force? I played this because I was transcribing that. Finally, that came into my playing, right?

Jesse Paliotto (26:21.936)
So that's interesting. I was originally thinking in terms of practice, sitting in your own environment and recording how you may place them, but you're really talking about your live performances, recording those and analyzing those after the fact. Yeah.

Neff (26:33.767)
yeah, yeah, you really have to. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you should record yourself practicing depending upon what your focus is gonna be. Like if you're gonna be, if you're gonna do something like, you know, Bruce Foreman has a solo a day that you start in the morning and you just play a tune. And I remember I was doing something like that with Bruce Bartlett a long time at Berklee that you just wake up in the morning and you just start playing.

And that's great to develop your solo guitar chops. And after a while, if you reflect upon that, then there's all kinds of compositional ideas that you can take from that. A lot of great musicians record themselves, transcribe it, and then because of their compositional chops, they start developing it, you know, with motive development and retrograde and all the great, you know,

Jesse Paliotto (27:05.755)
huh.

Jesse Paliotto (27:22.117)
Yeah.

Neff (27:30.569)
what theory and composition courses give you. and yeah, and that's the thing. And like I said, that reflective moment that you have helps you because you get back in touch with your mentors. That continuum never ever stops. If you cut it off, then you're actually cutting off the whole creative process because there's that incubation that still is going on the whole time in our brains.

Jesse Paliotto (27:33.805)
I love that.

Neff (28:00.617)
Right? So, and that cognition, you need to be aware and to be present actually. But you want to be present, but you don't want to be so present that it stifles you because you don't want to think all the time. You want to shut it off, but it becomes something that you learn as a subconscious and that takes years to develop. It takes years to develop, but you've got to be aware of it.

Jesse Paliotto (28:16.336)
Right.

Jesse Paliotto (28:24.645)
Yeah.

Neff (28:27.551)
You know, your ears will lead you the right way, but you need to know why. think Anton Webern said, The, the, your Anton Webern said, right. What was Berg or Webern? One of the two, you have to check it was that your ears will always lead you right, but you must know why.

Jesse Paliotto (28:33.03)
What was the quote?

Jesse Paliotto (28:47.994)
Yeah, I like that. It's very simple to me like sine wave, like, you know, even through the course of a day, if I'm playing, just playing something I know or something I love or riffing, and then coming back to the other side, which is an analysis, really trying to pick apart somebody else's thing and understand why a very intellectual approach versus the intuitive or something like that.

Neff (28:49.045)
Yeah, that's-

Neff (29:08.177)
Yeah. Well, it's a marriage of the two because you can't have one without the other. And a lot of people, well, not a lot of people, but many of us and me too, sometimes you're stuck on one side or you're stuck on the other. And you need to be able to always balance that, that it's not just, okay, I'm going to shed today. No, you got to have not only shedding, but you got to compose and you got to listen to new guys and you have to

do so many different, different that there isn't enough hours in the day. And, excuse me, and also you got to remember to live in how that is, how that is. Yeah, you know, so because, you know, it's an offshoot, know, music is just related to it. you know, if you don't pay your dues and you don't, you know, and paying your dues is generality, but if you don't,

Jesse Paliotto (29:47.654)
Be a human being, like actually live your life, yes.

Neff (30:04.755)
pay your dues not only to your instrument but to life and you don't know what the feel is and life doesn't inform that, how can you really move people with your performances and what you play and what you record? Yeah, yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (30:19.13)
Yeah, you know, the hermit gets out of touch and all of a sudden they're like people like, I don't know what you're talking about or what you're playing about in this case. We touched on it really briefly, but maybe do want to talk for a second about your album, Cambio? know, were the sources for that? Maybe kind of give us a quick rundown on that album.

Neff (30:31.063)
Yeah, I'd love to.

Neff (30:35.802)
Yeah, well, Cambio Change was, is really inspired by, I really love Vibraphone and I love it. It just, it was released last September 13th of this year, 2024 on Blue Canoe Records. It was co-produced by Jimmy Haslip and myself. So it features Jimmy, three time Grammy award winning bassist.

Jesse Paliotto (30:44.95)
When did it come out by the way? a quick check. When did it actually release?

Jesse Paliotto (30:51.78)
Got it. Okay.

Okay, cool.

Neff (31:03.071)
Danish vibraphonist Martin Fabricius and Finnish-Chilin percussionist Ricardo Padilla. Now, because of my love for Latin music and my love for Latin jazz, I wanted to do a record that brought back... I've always loved Cal Jader and I wanted to do a record that had that traditional sound of vibraphone guitar and percussion, not a drum set.

Jesse Paliotto (31:24.23)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (31:33.008)
So, and we got us playing all the percussion with all the overdubs. And, and I felt like I picked a good body of work that was kind of that leads the listener through all these different worlds with all these different palettes. And not only with just montunos and more dancing, but more of introspective when I go into 6-8 and then with something.

Jesse Paliotto (31:33.349)
Yeah.

Neff (32:00.676)
like Adelante, which is more in a Puerto Rican bomba there style. And then something like San Miguel de los Acordes, which is in 6-8, which is a shout out to Mick Goodrick, because I love Mick Goodrick and I work through all that stuff. So I wanted to have kind of that kind of ECM sound as well in there with the harmony.

Jesse Paliotto (32:08.006)
Mm-hmm.

Jesse Paliotto (32:19.866)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (32:30.291)
too. And of course, because the way that I felt that having Martin Fabricius on there, Martin plays completely different, he plays lyrical, he's not a bebopper, however, he's playing a lot of great vocabulary. And I felt that I needed to have that balance as well. Because the way that I'm playing with a lot of bebop, a lot of hard bop and different type of harmony,

He's grabbing all that harmony with me too when he's comping. But we're always having a good sense of melody and a good sense of building the solos as a compositional. We both have that compositional background and he studied with Gary Burton as well. we have a lot of it. were both at Berklee together at the same time. So I needed to, yeah, go ahead.

Jesse Paliotto (33:22.95)
How did you approach writing it? I'm curious, in terms of just process, like for the album, you're going like, okay, I have these things I want to write like this. I have these musicians I can reach out to. I want to do this thing. what is, there, do you have like a specific way you do this or is it kind of by guess or by gosh how you write? And then in a subset of that, to throw so many questions at once, it's interesting me about writing for percussion, especially if there's overdubs and multiple layers.

Neff (33:34.429)
Yeah.

Neff (33:44.798)
No, it's okay.

Neff (33:50.045)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (33:50.138)
Like how much of that are you calling out and specifying or how much of that is really just give it to the, to that artist and say, interpret, I want to do this sort of a song. You make it what it needs to be. So there's a lot of questions there, but wherever you want to take that.

Neff (34:01.849)
Alright, yeah, well maybe I should start backwards and go with this last part. Well, or, okay, well I'll start with the process. So first of all, I actually really, what I do is I have an idea and I work through it. Sometimes I hear complete pieces and then I write them down and then...

I go through a process of elimination of, okay, this works, this doesn't work, I re-harm it. I really go through it as exercise. And then I let them sit. I have a huge tune library of things that still I haven't recorded that I go back and revisit it and I retool it. And then when I find a certain amount of pieces that I'm happy with, then what I do is that,

Jesse Paliotto (34:38.115)
Okay.

Neff (34:53.281)
I go ahead and I start making sequences with them. because of my background, I put them in a DAW, either in Logic or in Pro Tools. Because I write in Sibelius or I write by hand first, then I transfer to Sibelius. Then it makes it a little bit easier because then I have the MIDI. And then I go into Logic or Pro Tools. One thing is that because I played other instruments as a kid,

Jesse Paliotto (34:57.146)
Okay.

Jesse Paliotto (35:10.564)
Okay.

Neff (35:21.92)
saxophone, no clarinet and bassoon and I do play percussion and I know about vibraphone. so when I'm coming up with bass lines and things like that, I always know what the style requires and how to be authentic in that while adding my own

Jesse Paliotto (35:25.51)
Mm-hmm.

Jesse Paliotto (35:42.715)
Uh-huh.

Neff (35:48.189)
my own touch on things. Now, my own touch is developed out of everything that I listen to from that time that I mentioned earlier in the podcast in Winsburg, Virginia, all the way to the present. So different things and different ways of how I'm feeling are going to bring out certain harmony or a certain way of doing things. So because I have these good demos,

There are some times when the guys tell me, I'm just gonna copy that man and and then when I tell them Yeah, and then and then for the instant I know there was a situation with Jimmy Jimmy told me man, that was such a great baseline man I'm gonna use that and then I'm gonna do something else with it I was like Jimmy you know Jimmy has a saying you gotta be the solid citizen, know Like you got a plan time and do everything I said man, you're the solid says that you do what you want, you know

And the great thing and the same thing with Ricardo, me and Ricardo, we had played together in basically Ricardo lives in Helsinki, just like me. And we played together for a long time. We played in a group with a a funny All-Stars bassist by the name of Julio Romero. And and because we know each other for so long, we know about, you know, he's a master percussionist. And I know all about this stuff, too.

and it's just fantastic to talk to him. I come up with an idea and I do it with, I have a bunch of samples and things that I have amassed over the years. And he says to me, yeah, I see what you're doing, but you should do this and this and this. And I said, go ahead, man, it's fine, you know? So basically I leave carte blanche to the players and then what I do is I go in and I listen to how things are and then I start.

Jesse Paliotto (37:31.194)
Yeah, just do it.

Neff (37:44.1)
you know, editing and things like that and see how I would like it.

Jesse Paliotto (37:49.062)
Are they recording on their own? Like you're giving them and saying, hey, in your own personal studio, put a little track down and send it back to me. Okay.

Neff (37:53.04)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. We're doing it like that. And in some cases we might do something, they might ask me, okay, Nef, could you produce me and things like that? So then I'll sit in online and stuff like that and I'll tell them, because the main thing is that in order to be an effective producer, first of all, you've got to have a good handle on what the musician knows, what you have to bring out the best.

out of those musicians. You got to know how to talk to them. You got to be a psychologist. You got to be a therapist. But also you've got to know you've got to speak to them in their language. You know, you just can't say and sometimes it works. You can say, OK, I have a picture board and this is the vibe that I want. You can say that to some people. But but you know, when you're dealing with high level musicians that sometimes like to know this as well, imagery that way. But if you can

Jesse Paliotto (38:32.742)
Mm-hmm.

Jesse Paliotto (38:40.187)
Right.

Neff (38:51.852)
Match that imagery with some concrete terminology that, hey, in the B section, I'm playing in melodic minor or I'm doing this and this is who I'm thinking about. I want ECM or I want this type of vibe. They usually hear it and matter. The most important thing before any recording is picking the right musicians that will interpret your music that way.

Jesse Paliotto (39:00.88)
Mm-hmm.

Jesse Paliotto (39:18.948)
Yeah, yeah, right.

Neff (39:19.46)
A lot of people believe, okay, I'm going to spend the money to call these guys. Hey, yeah, but you're going to hear that that connection is not there because you know, as much money as you have, you're you just can't not buy that. You know, you just can't buy.

Jesse Paliotto (39:37.05)
Right. You hired that person with their skill set, their experience, their taste, their tone, and you're going to get that. So if you want that, that's great. But there's different people that have different sets of those things.

Neff (39:40.9)
Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. And you have to be sure. And it's a matter of just being humble. It's not, I don't want to paint a bad picture here, but just be sure about what you want and can this person deliver? And nine times out of 10, you just need to be honest with yourself and know that, hey, it could be that this other person's better because

Jesse Paliotto (40:00.39)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (40:13.018)
the music, basically at the end of the day, the music should be the main priority. And if the musician is not giving you what you need, then you need to be, you know, it's like, it's like they say in the studio business, you know, I'm on the last train to sliceville, you know, and that's it. I didn't make the cut, man, you know, so, you know, so, so that is my process. Not only is it composition, not slicing people, but

Yeah, well sometimes you have to make tough decisions, you know, you have to make tough decisions. But but at the same time, you need to you should not compromise your artistic integrity and the integrity of the music just because you need this certain person or just because, you know, you can't get that person, you know, just wait, because once you get a record out, that's it. It's out, you know. And I was told that.

Jesse Paliotto (40:41.318)
Right.

True.

Jesse Paliotto (41:07.3)
Yeah, it's done. It's a wrap.

Neff (41:09.05)
Yeah, I was taught that back in the 90s, studying. said, hey, once you put it out there, it's out there. So be sure that you do your best to make it, polish it the best way that you can because you're always going to be compared to the grades. So there you go.

Jesse Paliotto (41:33.03)
Try, try hard and try. I really believe personally, I think it's fairly true that our creativity and artistic expression really thrives in constraints. And so if you tell people like, you can do anything you want, it can be a little like overwhelming, like anything. It's much easier if somebody says, I want you to write a blues and I want it in B flat and I want you to do it based on guitar. You're like, okay, now I know what I'm making. And actually I can get more creative because now I have specificity.

Neff (41:45.67)
Hmm, that's definite.

Neff (41:51.451)
No, didn't.

Neff (41:58.725)
No.

Jesse Paliotto (42:01.454)
It's interesting hearing you talk about selecting the people you work with because it's almost a pressure back on yourself to say, need to put constraints on, be clear with the constraints that I probably truly have in my head around my music. I really want a part that sounds like this. I really want, you know, a vibraphone that, you know, somebody who can play this type of music. And if I'm clear on my constraints, then it's much easier to go out and ask the right person because I know what I want.

Neff (42:16.508)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (42:29.168)
exec.

Jesse Paliotto (42:29.19)
I think if you're not clear with yourself, it would be a lot easier to be like, yeah, you're good, right, play. And then they don't do something you want. And then it's actually your fault. You didn't really clarify what you wanted.

Neff (42:34.171)
Yeah.

Neff (42:38.505)
Exactly. And one of the main things that I learned earlier from all my great mentors and the elders was that you need to manage your expectations and you need to be brutally honest with yourself. You know, you need to be brutally honest with yourself and not put out your dream, but realize what does your dream entail? You need to take little steps to get there. And then you'll be, if you build it slowly and you build it firmly,

Jesse Paliotto (42:50.31)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (43:06.334)
it will be that much better. You just need to take your time and just be your harshest critic, but not at, but at the same time, do not extinguish that, that, that fire, you know, don't, don't, don't be at, at, at the same time, you don't want to be scared to put anything out. No, I'm not advocating that, but I'm advocating that reflective, just being honest with yourself, knowing what you're good at.

If you're good at doing this, why would you do something else? So if you're good at playing, doing fusion and rock fusion, like in Alan Holdsworth vein, why in the world would you put out another record like this? You need to be consistent, you need to be honest with what is your artistic profile, what is your artistic vision, and just be consistent with that.

Jesse Paliotto (44:00.006)
Yeah, and people can tell because I mean, you can tell when somebody does sort of a vanity project in any field of art, we're like, they really wanted to do this because they thought it was interesting, but nobody else thought this was a good idea because it's not their strong suit. It's not what they're good at. And they were, you know, they were curious. They wanted to try it out. That's cool. But yeah, like being sticking to it's, I mean, it's really important for marketing and branding as well, which is more the mute, the business side of being a musician. But like people, you know, there's the old comment. I don't know if I totally agree with it, but

Neff (44:01.42)
Mm-mm.

Neff (44:05.868)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (44:10.358)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Neff (44:24.054)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (44:29.338)
that people are gonna know you for one thing. Nobody says, Neff, he's these seven things. They're like, no, Neff, he does the Latin jazz guitar stuff. You get one slot in somebody's brain. And if you come in and you're trying to be a hundred things, people don't know what to do with you. And so it becomes very hard to be branded in the marketplace, whether it's Spotify or gigs or local scene.

Neff (44:36.893)
Yeah, that's it. Yeah

Neff (44:48.564)
Absolutely. That's it. That's it. That's it. Nowadays, that's it. yeah, what can you say? Okay. I like that.

Jesse Paliotto (44:57.134)
Hey, can I ask you about a total left turn? I don't know you hear my hands right way. Left turn, left turn, this way. Your YouTube channel you've got focuses on transcriptions. I warned you, this was a hard left turn. But maybe I can make this connect back. Can you talk about that, the importance of transcriptions? I'm kind of thinking of it as it connects to like your own, the mentors you were talking about, Steve Khan, like is that a big thing for you? Why is it a big thing?

Neff (45:09.334)
Yes.

Yeah.

Neff (45:21.196)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (45:25.243)
Is that part of how you're kind of pulling material as you're starting to practice and build towards an album?

Neff (45:30.872)
Yeah, it really does. Well, first of all, this experiment on YouTube with the transcriptions, I've always been a huge transcripts transcriber. And that from the Berkeley time, I learned to do that. And I believe that transcribing and transcription is the best form of practice. Because you see, first of all, you get time

Jesse Paliotto (45:56.378)
Okay.

Neff (46:00.973)
You learn about rhythm, learn about ear training, you harmony, and then you see exactly, you learn about composition, you learn about development of a motif, all of these.

Jesse Paliotto (46:14.07)
What does it look like when you're transcribing? What is the actual scene? It's you with your guitar, with YouTube, what is it? What does it look like?

Neff (46:18.823)
Actually, no, actually what I do is I have an MP3 and then I just open up Sibelius and I start writing right there in there. Afterwards, I start practicing it and then I start getting it under my fingers, but I have really good relative pitch.

Jesse Paliotto (46:27.618)
huh. Really?

Jesse Paliotto (46:39.568)
I was just going to say, ears got to be great to just go right to notate. You're not even like fact checking yourself on a keyboard or anything. Like, get rid of the baby.

Neff (46:44.586)
Well, yeah, well, actually, the great thing with Sibelius is that you hear the keyboard there. So I'm singing the intervals because I don't have perfect pitch. So I have to find the pitch, right? So once I get the pitch, then I write it there and I I know what it is, what what the rhythm is, because I have great rhythms, rhythm sense that way. what I do, difficult area, because when something's really, really fast, I always slow it down. And and then and you have to be careful because if you slow it too, too much,

then you'll start hearing overtones and that isn't exactly, you're not supposed to notate those. And I'm extremely specific with the notation as well. So I do that. it depends, sometimes it takes me a while because I'm so precise and I want to do things. It depends on the solo. So something like if you go to my YouTube channel, you're to see that I have mostly

On the solo content for the jazz side of contemporary Latin jazz guitar, I have Bob Berg and have Eddie Harris on Olio. These are extremely advanced harmonic solos. And a matter of fact, I get comments all the time about these solos that there's so many different types of advanced chromatic principles and sophisticated harmonic principles that are going on.

Jesse Paliotto (47:52.752)
huh.

Neff (48:12.501)
that, you know, for instance, with Eddie Harris, Olio, that he did that in 1969 already, which is incredible when you realize what he went on to do and what he... Yeah, that's a subject for another conversation. So, what I want to do with that channel is to bring to light these sophisticated solos that...

Jesse Paliotto (48:20.41)
Yeah. Yeah.

Neff (48:42.373)
Many people probably, some people, I know this for sure, that they probably transcribe it, they have it in a notebook, and many people don't remember this, or maybe they do, they're not aware. So I'm gonna bring to light solos, specific solos, in a specific type of harmonic language that I'm interested in, to see how they resonate with the public, to see...

what, hey, are you checking this out? So guys like Bob Berg and Gary Thomas and Eddie Harris that have unique styles and unique harmonic approaches there. and then I'm using that as information for my linear style as well, you know? So I'm practicing.

Jesse Paliotto (49:33.882)
Yeah, that becomes all kind of like the material that's in your head that you can be inspired by or whatever.

Neff (49:39.423)
Yeah, absolutely. So it really does. It really does. And not only that, but on the channel, I also have material that's dedicated to the two books, Contemporary Latin Jazz Guitar Volume 1 and Volume 2, which is really important. I also have all the guitar players that are in the books are there on the channel and with also some great George Benson solos.

which is extremely important in Bruce Foreman and some lesser known, Edgardo Miranda and some traditional guys, Arsenio Rodriguez and El Nino Rivera, these types of things like that. So, yeah, so I see that because I'm an educator as well. So I want to have that aspect, that tangent and those

Jesse Paliotto (50:07.238)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (50:35.123)
that information there available. So people get an idea that, okay, not only does he play guitar, but he does have this other bag, which is, can be extremely useful. So the main thing that I was taught was to share the information and to keep the legacy alive. And by doing this, by having that YouTube channel, it brings to light

something that, you know, not many people talk about Eddie Harris a lot anymore. And especially about that period and besides freedom jazz dance, you know, a lot of people really don't play like that either. So it is extremely important. And I believe, and I stand by this, that that Olio solo is basically the Rosetta Stone. If you take that solo, yeah, if you take that solo and

Jesse Paliotto (51:27.664)
interest

Neff (51:31.206)
you look at it and you analyze it and you compare it to every other solo that he does. When this is only, okay, when he's playing blues material and stuff like that, that's a different bag, right? But basically you can find everything that he does in every other solo in that one solo. So that's 12 choruses. That's 12 choruses on a rhythm section, on a rhythm change, excuse me.

Jesse Paliotto (51:50.893)
okay.

Jesse Paliotto (51:55.728)
That is huge.

Neff (51:57.166)
It is and and and and I did giant steps for him and I did stablemate all these solos are very

Jesse Paliotto (52:03.959)
That's why through a dent of stone, you do 12 courses, you've to dig out every trick you know to go that long through that many courses. That's incredible.

Neff (52:11.044)
Of course, of course, of course. So of course, yeah, you know, so, and not many people, usually the rule of thumb is, do 12 bars or just take a little by little of a transcription. But the proof in the pudding is that if you can do all of the choruses and see how he's developing, that is...

Jesse Paliotto (52:13.824)
Well played.

Neff (52:38.32)
a more better example that'll really stand the test of time to really understand how great because, know, when I was a burglary, I was transcribing train and McCoy Tyner. When I look back at those now with what I know, I'm like, my God, you sometimes we don't realize how amazing our elders are really because it takes time.

for us to develop and to really get those things in our playing to understand that. And then to really appreciate it. It's a lifelong endeavor. And that's why I wanted to have a YouTube channel that not many people were doing that or you've seen these YouTube videos that guys are actually playing with it. I have a video of me playing with a...

Jesse Paliotto (53:18.832)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (53:30.589)
Tom Harrell solo on synth guitar. play a Roland synth guitar and I think I did pretty well on that. But on these transcriptions, I didn't want to play with them because that is not the focus. The focus is putting that information out. And then I put a general term above because there is so many things. YouTube is not an academic forum. So I get a lot of comments sometimes people

come back, some viewers get back with some academic, some assumptions. And it's a bit difficult to answer them because first of all, when you make an assumption about someone that transcribed them, you need to do your due diligence to know where that person's coming from. And I feel in some cases they are not doing their due diligence to ask me a question like that, knowing the things that I know.

and how, you know, when you're a master of music, regardless of my background, where I try to be as empathetic and diplomatic and I never try to pull the high, you know, the high ground on anyone. However, if you're going to approach someone, then be sure that you have, for this reason, I believe it's this, this, this, and that. And a lot of times, a lot of, lot of musicians are,

Jesse Paliotto (54:28.112)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (54:51.162)
Yeah, yeah,

Neff (54:56.492)
informed only to 90 % that they forget that, okay, my opinion now is only based upon the information that I know at this point, which is informed by what I'm listening to. And music is humble, it's humility, we never know everything. And especially when we're playing the guitar, the guitar has so many mysteries and so many different things and one person

Jesse Paliotto (54:59.792)
Mm-hmm.

Jesse Paliotto (55:07.866)
Right.

Neff (55:24.462)
says one thing and another person means that, then you really have to really try to spare the generalities and try to get straight to the point. Well, this is this and really the only person we can really ask is Eddie Harris, but he's dead. And then if you look at these theses,

Jesse Paliotto (55:47.098)
Yeah, right. Right, right.

Neff (55:51.13)
Well, then they derive an academic argument that's based on a focused answer that answers that. But there's always a disclaimer. Of course, there could be this other plausible outcome, you know. So

Jesse Paliotto (56:06.158)
I'm running into that myself recently. I'm learning some Joe Pass stuff. And so I'm like looking at some transcription and I'm like, why does he do that? Like there's these weird double stops he's doing. So I'm trying to fill in a theoretical explanation. Okay, what he's doing is he's doing like a two or five in a tritone substitution or something. And I'm feeling I'm doing what you just said. know 90%. I don't even know 90%. I know a much less percentage of what actually was really going on here. And I'm trying to drive a conclusion based on that. But then I'm watching,

Neff (56:09.841)
Yeah.

Neff (56:16.817)
Yeah.

Neff (56:20.465)
Yeah.

Neff (56:23.898)
Yeah. Yeah.

Neff (56:32.493)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (56:36.518)
blue, jazz blues, anyway, one of his educational videos and he starts making some comments and I'm like, that's what he's thinking. That's why he did this. But you got to get into their head and pass his case, like we're lucky enough that he recorded a bunch of educational material where he explains how he approaches it. And so then you can grab that and be like, okay, that's why he did these double stops. That's his mental construct. But I totally follow you.

Neff (56:39.217)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

Neff (56:55.688)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Definitely.

Jesse Paliotto (56:59.226)
Hey, listen, we're coming up right towards the end of, think, our time, but I wanted to do something. I'm just calling them quick hits. Some fast questions. You can give me whatever answers you want, of course, but no need no need to, you know, if these are random, then you don't have to. can can pass. No pun on the. What is in your Spotify right now? If you listen to Spotify or Apple Music or whatever, what are you listening to?

Neff (57:02.961)
Yeah, okay

Yeah.

Neff (57:13.521)
Alright.

Neff (57:19.033)
Okay.

Neff (57:26.625)
Well, I'm always, and a lot of people are going to be really surprised, but you know, actually I'm always revisiting older records. I'm always revisiting that. However, in the Spotify, it could be anything from some Scriabin or Debussy, or it could be, you know, El Gran Combo.

Or it could be a Jim Hall record that I didn't hear or it could be Peter Bernstein's new record. It really depends or it could be McCoy. I mean, and then if I'm in the car with my wife, then it'll be classic rock from the 70s or something like that. You know, I'll say, OK, let's listen to that Led Zeppelin record again or let's play with Mack or something. So that's basically in a nutshell, you know.

Jesse Paliotto (58:08.962)
Hahaha!

Jesse Paliotto (58:13.732)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (58:18.278)
I feel that man, my music listening habits are divided in half. It is what I listen to and then what I listen to when my family is in the car. It's like a different list. Right? Like they're not on board for the deep excursions and these things. I'm having a good time, but for them. All right, if you could, you couldn't, let's say you couldn't play guitar anymore. God came down and said, you're not allowed to play guitar, but you can take all of your skills and proficiency on guitar to another instrument.

Neff (58:24.494)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, man, gotta do, no trouble in the car, No, otherwise it's gonna be a long ride, man.

Neff (58:42.158)
yeah.

Neff (58:46.97)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (58:47.194)
What other instruments do you wish you could play as well as you play guitar?

Neff (58:50.48)
man, this is such a hard one because I love all of the instruments. you know, I would say it would probably have to be, know, it would have to be vibraphone or piano, one of the two. But I love trumpet and I love saxophone. But you know, just...

Just the way the vibraphone is and the way the piano is, it's just amazing, I think. Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (59:22.564)
Yeah, as a composer too, like what you can do in a piano is, hard to, mean, is the definition of kind of Western music.

Neff (59:25.773)
Yeah, it-

Neff (59:29.82)
It is, it's really something else. mean, you know, and the great pianists and great compo, I mean, it's just something else. mean, yeah. So I think I'm in between there. Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (59:42.82)
All right, what's, give me one musician that you have recently either discovered or just started digging. Maybe you've known about him for a long time, but all of a sudden you're like, I dig this. Like give me one musician that's been hot lately for you.

Neff (59:56.917)
Wow. Well, there is a piano player, a Cuban piano player of Alfredo Rodriguez that he's been really hip with his trio and how they redo tunes and stuff like that. He's been really hip and, know, and then he had

Jesse Paliotto (01:00:15.536)
Where'd you find him? Is he like a YouTube guy or is he?

Neff (01:00:18.379)
he's on Instagram and he happens to be, well, I know about him because he comes up in my feed and I really love that. And he's got a great personality. And then he has guys that play with him. I love this percussionist, Pedro Martinez, too, which is fantastic. A guitar player.

You know, all it's it's always, you know, Kurt Rosenwick was always a great guy. You know, Lag Alund, this Tom Allendorfer is really cool. I love Wolfgang Moosebill. He just did a new record and the classical etudes because I'm a big Ralph Towner fan. So I feel that somehow, you know, we I feel that somehow.

The whole classical guitar thing and jazz kind of is, there should be more of the nylon thing, I think. And I really love what Ralph did. And there's a matter of fact, a match book and the other record that he did with Gary Burton is, that's always on my playlist, all the time. The way that they play together and the way that Ralph composes is just something else, know, rediscover him all the time. Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (01:01:40.486)
I'll go check that out.

Neff (01:01:43.215)
So that's basically... Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (01:01:44.022)
right on. OK, last question. If you could buy this is very just guitar nerd question. If you could buy any guitar piece of gear, money is no object. It's just like, dude, this would be so cool to get. What would it be?

Neff (01:01:58.383)
man, you know, this is a difficult one because you know, I, I, it is really because you know what I would do is I would probably commission, you know, I'm, I'm with, I mean, I'm a sharp pop artist. I would probably commission CEO, to make, make, you know, another arch top and 18 inch or, or get a D Angelico or, or get Manser or Wilkie or Benedetto.

Jesse Paliotto (01:02:01.19)
Yeah.

Jesse Paliotto (01:02:19.792)
Mm-hmm.

Neff (01:02:26.286)
and then I would want to get like a synclavier, an old synclavier or you know, or a synthax or... There's just too much of a Dumble Amp. I mean, it'd be nice to get an old 60s Strat. There's too much stuff, man. You know, but I'm really monogamous to my instruments and you know, I got a 64 ES175, 97 ES345, the Archtop that Theo made me, an Opus G...

Jesse Paliotto (01:02:39.76)
Yes, I know,

Neff (01:02:54.094)
a GR-300 synth guitar, a white one which is really cool, which is on one of the tracks, Meehaw, which is on the record. So man, with gear, to be honest with you, I don't go into shops anymore because I'm sponsored by Kurt Magen Strings. So I get strings and I'm sponsored with cables, with Volvox cables. And I get that. And then the last thing that I got,

was with Game Changer Audio, so I got the cool Bigsby pedal and the Plus pedal, which is just amazing. I think basically, I think I answered your question well was that, man, with that type of money, I would talk to, you know, I would talk to Dumble, would talk to, you know, to Neural DSP that they're from Finland. I go to their shop and I speak to them in Finnish and say, hey, look,

Jesse Paliotto (01:03:29.952)
nice.

Jesse Paliotto (01:03:36.934)
What?

Jesse Paliotto (01:03:48.166)
Yep.

Neff (01:03:52.268)
this is what we should do you know so that that that would be the thing you know basically all custom man yeah

Jesse Paliotto (01:03:58.596)
That's. Yeah, this is respect. We're starting up the neff line of pedals, Dumble, customizations, Archtop designs. I love it.

Neff (01:04:04.494)
That's where it's at. I mean, I've always modded my gear and I and I, you know, that's probably another subject, but I think that's what it is. mean, you know, Scott Henderson and Alan Holdsworth, all those cats did the same thing. We all got our little, you know, we all got our things. So, yeah, man.

Jesse Paliotto (01:04:22.74)
totally.

Jesse Paliotto (01:04:27.201)
I love-

Hey, thank you, Neff, for being on the podcast. So appreciate this. Neff, where's the best place to follow you? If somebody said, I want to learn more about Neff or keep up with them, what's the best channel to get with you on?

Neff (01:04:38.946)
Well, the best place would be for me would be www.Nefirezary.com. Also to get the record would be through Blue Canoe Records and Cambio. Also, you can go to share music for my books and then you can go to the YouTube channel and you can check out all the videos. you know, I actually answer all the questions that are

that and comments that come to the channel. So nine times out of ten you're speaking directly with me. If I'm lazy then I have someone in the team do it but most of the time I do it. Yeah and I like to have the contact so that's the thing and you know I still have room for students and I'm open for studio sessions so that's awesome. Yeah man.

Jesse Paliotto (01:05:10.543)
Cool.

Jesse Paliotto (01:05:19.942)
All right.

Jesse Paliotto (01:05:29.306)
Right on. Right on. Thank you, Nef, so much. Thanks for joining Nef and I on the show today. Hope you guys all have a great time. Thank you to you, Nef, and we'll catch you all later. Have a great day. Cheers.

Neff (01:05:39.606)
was pleasure. Bye bye.